Talk:Sobekai Dynasty
Could you please come up with a new name soon? Seeing the term Necrontyr used as the name of a Necron Dynasty causes the Fluff Fanatic in me to cringe a bit. I am your master! At your service. (talk) 23:25, September 27, 2012 (UTC) I hear ya, I'm working on it.. I just saw you had to have a good reason to edit the page name so I didnt want to change it til I was sure. In the meantime maybe it would help to think about it as a'' Necrontyr Dynasty, not ''the Necrontyr Dynasty to represent ALL the Nectrontyr Race. ;D Pro1yfic (talk) 15:52, October 1, 2012 (UTC) Okay, thank you for the motivation ;) I settled on sobekai after the crocodile diety, due to their propensity to launch sudden vicious attacks from beneath the surface of the waters :D Pro1yfic (talk) 18:47, October 1, 2012 (UTC) I like it. A good name, and my inner Fluff Fanatic no longer cringes! :) I am your master! At your service. (talk) 18:53, October 1, 2012 (UTC) Alright, so I have gone over the article and so far it looks pretty good. I do have a few things I would like to address though. First off what are the Dynasty Wars? Were you talking about the Wars of Secession? If so what side were the Sobekai on? Secondly I feel it is unecessary for them to have a rank above Phaeron, as the description of a Phaeron is an Overlord that rules an entire Dynasty. Thus the only logical rank above that of Phaeron is the Silent King which rules ofver the Triarch, which as you know was the unified ruling body of the Necrons in the ancient past. So instead you can simply substitute the terms. You can say that the Necrons of the Sobekai Dynasty refer to their Phaeron as King. Also while I could be wrong I believe the term Nemesor denotes the primary strategist under the command of an Overlord. Basically I figure that a Nemesor is a particular Necron Lord that an Overlord trusts to advise him, or to take command of his forces in his stead. Though I may be wrong. I hope this helps. I am your master! At your service. (talk) 17:50, October 2, 2012 (UTC) I forgot to mention something in my previous comment. The Sobekai could not have struck an agreemtn with the C'tan. The Long Sleep was not their doing. In fact they had been overthrown and broken into fragments called Shards, and then said Shards were sealed within Tesseract Cubes by the Silent King, who liberated the Necrons from the C'tan. I am your master! At your service. (talk) 18:01, October 2, 2012 (UTC) Great stuff! Thanks, okay ... yes, Dynasty Wars was a placeholder I forgot to replace with Wars of Succession, thanks for the correction :D I couldnt remember what they called them at the time. As far as what side, they have a noble desire to see the necrontyr unite althought their true goal in M41 is apotheosis over unification. At the time of the Wars of Succession, they may have been hunters of separatists, seeking glory among the necrontyr greater than earning a name known just among the members of their own dynasty. This part of their history would be great to expand on in the future I'd think The King title feels really out of place.. next to praetor, nemesor, lictor.. all latin sounding. "Emperor" would have fit but we know that title is taken for all races across all galaxies ;D Okay so Phaeron as a designation literally means that he's the "king" of a given dynasty? I guess the fact that there are both fluff aspects of being a phaeron as well as crunchy aspects is whats confusing me. Would a fluff-satisfying necron army never have two phaerons on the tabletop? basically, the dynasty consists of three "phaerons" (by my previous limited understanding of the term) - The original Sobekai phaeron, a phaeron whos crownworld the Sobekai subjugated during the wars, prob using Travyn's model because he was meant to be a radiation-weakened humanoid during the time of biotransference hence his slumped posture (was his phaeron title revoked at this moment his crownworld was conquered?), and a third "phaeron" (in game terms as far as stat line/character/relentless usr) that's basically the "kings" second in command (using ahnrakyrs model and rules prob, with his phyrrian eternals acting as a sort of Karakus elite immortals squad). Maybe this third phaeron is only a phaeron by crunch terms, with relentless immortals, but isnt actually referred to as a Phaeron? ''Proposed changes: ''I think I'll drop the king rank and shift the structure of the ranks over a slot.. that way it would be phaeron instead of king, then overlords instead of phaerons - one of which is a former phaeron, one of which is a second in command loyalist overlord to the existing phaeron, one of which has been made a nemesor, and one of which is an obyron (sobekai call them lictor), then the Lords. (At least I think the nemesor is an overlord, at least the Nemesor Zandrekh character is an overlord IIRC?) Okay lastly on the C'tan. I'm a little blurry though I've read through the 5th ed codex on the changes to necron fluff that it made, I just keep confusing the two fluffs. Okay, so now the necrons have developed biotransference on their own without the c'tan? after the war in heaven, the ctan and the necrons fought and the necrons shattered them with the obliteration cannons? THEN biotransference took place? I can fix this easy enough, I only squeezed a ctan in there because I thought I was supposed to - it doesnt fit the theme anyway so I'm happy to remove it. Okay so in 5th, the necron imprisoned them, then the silent king gave the order to enter the long sleep, but he himself did not go to sleep? what about a dynasty that was cut off at this point, is there any way they would also have the biotransference technology used by the rest of the necrontyr? doubtful they developed it on their own, but assuming their crownworld was emblazoned with flames, do you have any ideas how they would they carry out the final orders of the silent king? Oh p.s. I had thought the solar flares not being a natural occurance but possibly the eldar testing a weapon of war that destablizes stars.. eventually deeming it too uncontrollable to further utilize, would that fit ok? Thanks again, and again please take all the time you need!! I'm very happy to have your review Pro1yfic (talk) 20:03, October 2, 2012 (UTC) Your changes make sense. To clarify on the matter of the C'tan, they were the architects behind the Bio-transference, and the Necrons served them for a time. However the Silent King recognized the C'tan for the evil that they were, and realized that under them the Necrons would be mere tools of murder. So once the Old Ones were brought down by the Enslavers he staged a coup. He couldn't destroy the C'tan, but he managed to split them into the Shards, which resemble their original selves in form and behavior, but are only a fragment of the complete being. The Silent King then destroyed the Command protocols that enslaved the Necrons to a single will, and as a last command ordered the Necrons into the Long Sleep because he knew that the coming age would belong to the Eldar, and thus he had his people sleep so that in ages far in the future they could rise and reclaim the galaxy. Does that clarify things? I am your master! At your service. (talk) 21:11, October 2, 2012 (UTC) Yes! Thanks :D the only question I still have is regarding the necron acquisition of the technology of biotransference. the ctan are the architects of this technology, but obviously when the necrons rebel they have enough command over it to do it all themselves (well, with their ai caretakers). So did the ctan gift the necrons this technology before the rebellion? or maybe they took it during? I'm just having problems understanding (in this new fluff) how the necrons initiated the sleep process on their own. I much prefer this avenue as it allows me to have my dynasty acquire the technology and execute it themselves (without the ctan), but did they discover it, steal it, evolve it, receive it as a gift, etc? Maybe it was something they shared with them during the War? I wonder if there's any clarification on this somewhere.. Pro1yfic (talk) 13:01, October 3, 2012 (UTC) An interesting question. I am not entirely sure, but I don't believe that the Necrons have full understanding of the Bio-Transferrance. The Necrontyr had no need to attain the technology, for the entire race had undergone it to be come the Necrons during the War in Heaven. I believe there are those amongst the Necrons that wish to reverse the Bio-Transferacne, and take new organic bodies. However if they had mastered it I believe there would be those that would have already done it. On a separate note regarding the Nemesors. I can not be sure, as the fluff I have been going over is not very specific on this subject, but I have come to believe that Nemesor isn't actually a rank. Rather I believe that it may be a Necron term with the rough meaning of "Commander", or "Strategist". I believe the term is applied to whatever Necron Lord or Overlord happens to be in overall command on a particular battlefield. Once more my resources regarding that particular subject are limited, and thus I may be wrong. I am your master! At your service. (talk) 18:57, October 3, 2012 (UTC) Also I don't believe it is possible to have more than one Crownworld. If what I read is true then a Crownworld is the world that has been designated as a particular Necron Dynasty's capitol world. I am your master! At your service. (talk) 19:00, October 3, 2012 (UTC) Re: Bio transferrance.. I was still a bit misunderstanding of this when I revised their history because I thought this happened at the same time as the long sleep.. but now I think I am clear.. the ctan shared the tech with the necrontyr to transform them into the necrons in order to win the war in heaven, then after the ensuing revolt by the necrons and the shattering of the ctan, the Silent King iniated the long sleep in order to wait out the eldar as it was their time to rule, but went out far away and found the tyranid so is returning to begin a coalition of necrons (since the tyranid will devour all biological life, thus ending their dream of returning to organic form) Re: Nemesor, Yes I think you are exactly right. I went back and looked and Nemesor Zandrek is definately an Overlord, not a Phaeron. but his rank among other necrons is overlord. As stated, the nemesor title doesnt grant anything out of the ordinary in times of peace, but basically is the war time strategist/commander re: Crownworlds.. its funny you mention that because I thought initially that there was only one crownworld to a dynasty.. during the development of the page, something I read changed my mind. I will try to find my source, but I would much prefer the heirarchy of 1 Crownworld, 1 tombworld (formally the capital of now subjugated dynasty), and then numerous fringeworlds for resources. I think it was in the cron codex where it stated what exactly a crownworld is defined as. By it's name, one would certainly assume its a capital world though, but what do the necron call a previously conquered world that doesnt have a tomb in it but may have once been a former necrontyr capital world, just a world I guess? Pro1yfic (talk) 21:29, October 3, 2012 (UTC) Changes made: they now have no king and only one phaeron. they are currently fighting for control of one crownworld, with intentions toward the two nearby tomb worlds, and other various smaller holdings to reclaim throughout the course of their tabletop career. Thanks a lot Supa for all your help youve been a great resource of knowledge Pro1yfic (talk) 21:12, October 4, 2012 (UTC)